45 Responses for "Movable Type 3.0 and Community"

1. Andrei Herasimchuk

   May 13th, 2004 at 9:51 pm

   1

   “Another company after another dollar it seems”

   Paul… that’s what companies do. That’s their sole reason for existence.

2. Nollind Whachell

   May 13th, 2004 at 10:02 pm

   2

   Uh, I disagree. A company should be there first and foremost for their customers. After all, they are trying to help them with some service or product. The benefit of them helping their customers is that the end result is that they do make that almight dollar from them in the end. However, the focus shouldn’t be on the dollar but on the customer. Different way of looking at things but still a big difference nonetheless. Actually the problem today is that too many companies are focused so much on the almighty dollar that they have lost touch with their customers needs.

3. Timothy Appnel

   May 13th, 2004 at 10:35 pm

   3

   When TypePad was developed and launched developers were neglected since there was little we could sink our teeth into.

   TypePad was expressly created to help the average user who can’t install server software and fiddle with code. TypePad is the more appropriate system for many who are being so vocal from what I can tell. With unlimited weblogs and authors in the Pro version its also more economical especially when you factor in hosting costs.

4. JC

   May 13th, 2004 at 10:53 pm

   4

   “A company should be there first and foremost for their customers.”
   And everyone should have a pony of their very own…

5. Ordinary-Life.net

   May 13th, 2004 at 11:01 pm

   5

   MovableType 3.0 Comments

   Well the news is out. MovableType 3.0 has been released for developers publicly, and the new licensing and pricing scheme are causing a major uproar in the weblog community. Dasme ForeverGeek Web-Graphics In general the feeling is that SixApart has pre…

6. Ramblings of a Code Monkey

   May 13th, 2004 at 11:05 pm

   6

   MovableType 3.0

   So, as you’ve probably heard, MovableType 3.0, Developer Edition, was released today (more info here and here; or just do a search and see the controversy unfold). The big news is, of course, that most users of MT will have…

7. ed costello: personal journal

   May 13th, 2004 at 11:35 pm

   7

   Oops. Boxed out by SixApart

   MovableType has announced a new licensing regime to go along with a Developer’s Release 3.0 and, well, I’m going to be migrating off MT. I pay for software I like, and the rates that SixApart is charging are quite in line with what I’d expect and pay f…

8. Andrei Herasimchuk

   May 14th, 2004 at 2:29 am

   8

   “A company should be there first and foremost for their customers.”

   Let’s say for semantic’s sake, that this point is valid. Ok… then, by this logic, a company that isn’t there for its customers probably doesn’t make any money because their customers go elsewhere since they are not being catered to.

   I don’t see the difference between how you think companies should behace versus why I stated a company exists in the first place.

   It’s like that design/usability thing. They are one in the same thing. Good design = good usability. Companies that focus on users = Successful companies that last.

   But don’t kid yourself, companies *exist* to make money. That’s their sole purpose to exist. It has nothing to do with listening to customers. That’s just what they should do to stay in existence.

9. Andrew

   May 14th, 2004 at 2:38 am

   9

   Andrei seems to be very deffensive about this whole thing (on several sites). My solution is simple: using an open source CMS. Bye bye MT… forever!

10. Josh

    May 14th, 2004 at 7:04 am

    10

    I guess i have some more reading to do on exactly what is going on here. Is there a free version at all anymore? And what exactly does it not have that the other versions do? Just the restrictions on the number of blogs you can have?

    “A company should be there first and foremost for their customers.”

    Nollind, I hate to break it to you, but that is by far the most ‘out there’ statement I have read on this whole issue. A business is a business. They are there to make money and that’s it. Nothing more. Keeping customers happy is just simply a means to keep that money flowing.

    Take a look at customer support for instance. Companies KNOW for a fact that their customer support is sub-par. They just do what they can to be satisfactory. They full well have it in their power to make their customer support better, but that costs money. And making the customers THAT happy is not worth the money. So they have to find the balance of “How much do we HAVE to spend on customer support to at least keep they amused while still being cheap enough that we are maximizing revenue.”

    Don’t like the way this sounds? Welcome to the consumeristic society we live in. If it bothers you that much, I’m afraid the only solution is to move to a desert island. 1 out of 100 people will not stick up for what they believe, and companies know that. They take advantage of that, make the money and that’s it. Heck, I would.

11. milbertus

    May 14th, 2004 at 7:21 am

    11

    Josh – yes, there is a free version of MT 3.0. While it isn’t limited feature wise, you are only allowed to have one author, three blogs, and install it on a machine with 1 CPU. That rules me right out, because it just so happens that my host’s server has 2 CPUs. Other than those limitations, though, you’re getting the exact same product as someone who shells out some money for MT 3.0.

12. ambivalent imbroglio

    May 14th, 2004 at 8:48 am

    12

    MT 3.0

    Movable Type, the software that runs this and thousands of other blogs, is no longer going to be free. (See a sample of the discussion here and here, via Scripting News.) See also the posts linked via trackback to the announcement of these changes. Man…

13. kartooner

    May 14th, 2004 at 9:23 am

    13

    I’ve got to agree with Andrei on this issue. Six Apart wants to make money, the reasoning behind their releasing this new pricing scheme.

    Every company in existence (aside from those that release Open Source software) survive on the greenback. Otherwise how would they pay their staff to further the development of the product.

    However, being a student, husband and recent father I simply cannot afford (for the time being) the personal license. I refuse to rant about the subject because, truth be told, version 2.65+ is still available for use (despite it not being fully supported).

    Prior to these pricing plans, Six Apart released MT at a meger $20.00 (later changed to $50.00) per installation for personal use. Any extra money on top of this was through donations.

    Due to MT’s success Six Apart was able to hire more staff members and guess what; they need the funds to pay these people. While I’m not too pleased with the pricing per say I can understand their need to unvail such a plan.

    The continuation of success is through progress. Progress according to a company is only fueled via money, teamwork and support. Generating money is the driving factor for companies unless its based solely on volunteer work, which would be Open Source in this case.

    Even then, as Jason Santa Maria reiterates;

    If they [Open Source software] become at all successful, they will need to move to a business plan. Such is the nature of the free product model. In order to develop things further and maintain your customers you will need to expand your product, and inevitably, your operation.

14. Scrivs

    May 14th, 2004 at 10:55 am

    14

    Well my problem isn’t that they are making people pay. Because like everyone says they are a business who needs to make money. The issue, which I didn’t reflect to well in the entry I suppose is that there was no communication of a new pricing scheme. Hell, even the beta testers who took the free version off their servers and upgraded to the beta didn’t even know so they are stuck with it unless they wish to pay.

    Some of you have been saying that companies are only in it for the money and I think once they get to a certain size that it becomes true. However, I do think that SixApart is still small enough that they can not afford to start ignoring their community. At any rate they need to learn how to communicate more effectively, especially if they are going to have a blog that helps to make their company more transparent to everyone.

15. tima thinking outloud

    May 14th, 2004 at 12:10 pm

    15

    O’Reilly: MT3 and a Balanced Diet.

    So I’ve spent the better part of yesterday and this morning reading email and response to my earlier O’Reilly post. there are some good counterpoints in addition to some real rubbish. I recap and offer some potential balance.

16. tima thinking outloud

    May 14th, 2004 at 12:13 pm

    16

    O’Reilly: MT3 and a Balanced Diet.

    So I’ve spent the better part of yesterday and this morning reading email and response to my earlier O’Reilly post. there are some good counterpoints in addition to some real rubbish. I recap and offer some potential balance.

17. JC

    May 14th, 2004 at 12:34 pm

    17

    Andrew, I don’t think Andrei is “defensive” per se… he’s simply stating common sense, which lots of people on the web hate hearing.

    A company’s purpose is to make money. You want to bitch because the free product is no longer free (or in this case, the free version is more limited), fine, go for it… but the company is not in the wrong for trying to monetize. Sure, it sucks, and it probably won’t go nearly as well as they expect it to, and they’ll lose most of the open source types (who have so suddenly been reminded that MT isn’t free, speech or beer) to other projects like WordPress… but they’ll make some money, maybe enough to pay back whatever debts they’ve run up in doing MT and even have some left over, so bully for them. And some additional talent will opt to help extend WordPress et al, so bully for them. And you can still choose to stay with MT2, it’s been working fine for people all over the place for a long time, or move to an open source system, or shell out some bucks for the unrestricted MT 3 or expressionEngine or whatever. You’re perfectly free to do any of those things… so bully for us all.

    Ugh. I think I’ve been infected by Teddy Roosevelt’s ghost.

18. Andrei Herasimchuk

    May 14th, 2004 at 1:43 pm

    18

    “Hell, even the beta testers who took the free version off their servers and upgraded to the beta didn’t even know so they are stuck with it unless they wish to pay.”

    This I agree is bad form. At Adobe, we give a free copy of the release version to all beta testers for their work and effort, as does most every software company I have ever worked for does. I have no idea why 6A did not do this, if that is indeed true.

    As for being upset? I’m not upset. I’m a capitalist. 8^)

19. Diaphanus @ Webdiva

    May 14th, 2004 at 3:01 pm

    19

    Six Apart releases MT3

    Six Apart took everyone by surprise today and release Movable Type 3.0, the long awaited upgrade for it’s popular Content Management System, or blog software to the majority of it’s users. The excitement of the release was somewhat overshad…

20. Sian

    May 14th, 2004 at 3:14 pm

    20

    Scrivs, this is probably going to be one or possibly the biggest lesson the Six Apart will learn.

    Personally I don’t understand what the furor is all about. “Ben and Mena” ceased the moment that Typepad was launched and its bizarre to say the least that so many believe that they were going to continue in that vein, especially since creating Six Apart the Company and launching Typepad.

21. Camilo

    May 14th, 2004 at 3:42 pm

    21

    A company must identify both customers and clients. The community that helped create the MT idea has customers in every blogger. However, this remake of MT smacks of dumping customers for clients – while dismissing other points.
    Fine, let SA make money and all, but they are misplacing their model.

22. JC

    May 14th, 2004 at 7:00 pm

    22

    “we give a free copy of the release version to all beta testers for their work and effort, as does most every software company I have ever worked for does”
    I wish you’d worked for Macromedia… I beta tested the heck out of Kaiwa (flash communication server for linux) and all I ever got was a “thanks, we’re done, the beta will expire next week.” I have an old FlashCom 1 copy but that only runs on windows… and my server’s running red hat. Ah well.

    As for MT, I agree, very bad form re: the beta upgrade bit, they should at the very least provide a script that will allow the MT users to downgrade.

23. translate

    May 15th, 2004 at 2:12 am

    23

    MT 3 – here, there everywhere.

    MT3.0D runs here. Storm at 6A. Opinions elsewhere and many more.

24. translate

    May 15th, 2004 at 2:39 am

    24

    MT 3 – here, there everywhere.

    MT3.0D runs here. Storm at 6A. Opinions elsewhere and many more.

25. Alanna

    May 15th, 2004 at 8:05 pm

    25

    I haven’t been keeping up lately with all of this — point of fact, I just learned about the new realease.

    Honestly? I really do not mind paying for MT. Point of fact, I had been considering donating several dollars or even purchasing the commercial version of 2.x but was waiting in anticipation for 3.0 before I proceeded.

    What angers me? The limitations on the number of authors and weblogs, even if you decided to purchase the software. I not only maintain a multitude of weblogs, I also create a multitude of weblogs for my friends and family — and that is just as a personal user. I use MT for fun, not profit. Even the ridiculous $600 Commerical version wouldn’t fit my needs.

    You want me to pay for my software? Hey, fine. I’ll do it. I’ve done it plenty of times before. But I’ll demand full featured software first.

    It’s definitely time I started looking into other options now. I’ve been hearing good things about Wordpress…

26. Alanna

    May 15th, 2004 at 11:10 pm

    26

    I’m still researching this topic — again, I just found out about the hubub a couple of hours ago. And though I’ve read many varying opinions, I am still left displeased with Six Apart and MT.

    I understand the need to make money. I actually considered the fact that they spent so much time/money on MT for free to be exceedingly ridiculous for a business. I knew this had to change, or the company itself would fold. And, as I said, I would be perfectly willing to pay for a reasonably priced personal licensed software — I have done so before, and do not doubt I shall continue to do so again.

    It makes perfectly good sense to me to have a limited free version that will entice you to purchase an upgrade. This is standard business for virtually every software company that I know of.

    But I find the limitations of the purchased software to be extremely offensive. I have an analogy to this situation: Say you purchased a SUV from, hmm, Honda. You would expect unlimited use of the car, despite the limitations of said car (it cannot swim through water or fly to the moon). You would not expect for Honda to say you can only drive the car with one passengers on a limit of three roads. However, you would expect to pay for services and tune ups on your car.

    And yet MT has this all messed up. You pay for the software, yet are limited in how you use it. You do not pay for the potentionally unnecessary services, as it is included in the price. What were they thinking?

    And with the backpedaling and damage control that they have had to do and with numerous issues still yet need to resolve, I get the sense that Six Apart honestly did not know their audience expectations and what is the true use of their software. And though it has been said that they are trying to escape their Ma & Pa image, I cannot help but feel that they are not managing to proceed professionally as one would expect from a business. The whole issue is just really bad business for SixApart and great business for their competitors.

    I would like to go ahead and point to three other sources that better outline and expand on what I’ve said. Burningbird, MT Thread 1, MT Thread 2. Of course there is a great deal more available…

    I’m currently looking into my other options, because 2.661 is no longer available for download and I do not have a hardcopy to install from. They, in what I consider bad form, no longer provide previous versions available to download on their site. I am currently researching WordPress and ExpressionEngine to see if they address my needs.

    This is disheartening for somebody that has used and advocated MovableType for almost 2 years.

27. fwolf

    May 24th, 2004 at 1:09 pm

    27

    for those poor, disheartened people who think about changing to WordPress: do a test install and give it a try! Not to mention that IMHO scripts written in PHP 4 are a lot better to modify than Perl based ones. WPs code is not only very easy adjustable (just have a look at my latest done job, Candies-Boutique.de, in which I hacked WP the way it works both as a blog, a link page and a guestbook), but also does come with all the stuff one would want in a good weblog software solution. Current release candidate No. 1 does look quite decent. ;)

    Another suggestion would be b2evolution, which is the inofficial, direct successor of b2/cafelog, apparently offering all the stuff WP is able plus a bit more.

    But if you also got great support with the ‘complete and total commercialization’ of MT, why dont stick with it? Good support is something _I_ would spend money for, even if I was a newbie to blogging (which Im not). You ought to see it from both sides…

    cu, w0lf.

28. JC

    May 24th, 2004 at 1:43 pm

    28

    I thought development on b2evolution was basically dead.
    1.2 looks good. The piece I like most about WordPress I think is the pingbacks… so much easier to work with than trackbacks, no special URL needed… if you link to a pingback enabled site, it knows you linked, and vice versa.

29. Nollind Whachell

    July 2nd, 2004 at 9:36 pm

    29

    Hehe, little late on the response on this but, Josh, if you equate addressing the customers needs as an afterthought, if at all, then I would say that your thought process is perfect for the business of today who are losing customers. I think the problem is that you may be thinking that in my statement I’m saying “businesses need to do everything in their powers to make their customers happy”. I’m not saying that at all.

    The problem that I see today is that companies, as you put it, couldn’t give a crap about their customers. All they care about is money, as you put it. This is already changing though. People are pissed of when they buy a product and get crap in return (often times getting a product that doesn’t even work). Simply put, you can’t continually keep screwing your customers for their money and expect to get away with it.

    That is what I meant by putting your customers first. I’m saying that instead of companies not caring about their customers at all. They need to find a balance where they can meet the basic needs of their customers, so that those customers will continue to deal with that company. I mean if you don’t give a crap about your customer, don’t expect your customer give a crap about you. And as for living on a desert island, I would say that any company that is still not caring about their customers (i.e. meeting their basic needs), even in the slightest, are going to be out of business and on that desert island. Hell, I think the dot com bomb was a perfect example of that.

    And finally if you find my statement too far out there, just do some searches on the web related to corporations, morality, ethics, and responsibilities. This issue isn’t new. It’s been around for years in magazines, books, and the Web, slowing growing more with each passing year. People are demanding more and more from the companies they deal with. If they don’t find it with one company they will just go some where else. The almightly dollar has spoken. Companies can deal with it or else go the way of the dinosaur. :)

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